Revelation - 1:9-20
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[00:00:00] we'll start with just a little bit of review and then if you have any questions from our last study, uh, you can do that. But our last study, uh, so this is number three. So the first one was more of an introduction last week we started chapter one, but we actually only made it through the first eight verses.
Again, I wanna remind you, um, please ask questions. Okay. Um. I don't really have an agenda on how fast I want to get through things. Um, I'd rather answer questions, make sure you understand as we go along the way. So I'd rather it be a discussion than just me talking. But anyway, by way of review, the first eight verses, I think the first thing we looked at, um, and we pointed out, and most of this is actually found in verse one, is the Book of Revelation was meant to be understood.
And yet it's probably one of the more debated books, if not the most debated book today. Um, but words like just the name of the book, revelation an Unveiling. Um, in chapter one, verse one, John used the word to show, which again, we looked at these [00:01:00] in detail so I won't get a lot of detail and then communicated it or signified it.
All these words, when you break 'em down, uh, they communicate the idea that what John was sharing with the seven churches was supposed to be understood. It wasn't supposed to be hidden or secretive or anything like that. And I mentioned last week. That one of the reasons we struggle with this book so much, and it seems hidden, and it seems closed, is because we don't know our Old Testaments and all of the, uh, typology, all of the symbols, all of the types, all of it comes from the Old Testament.
So the Book of Revelation is typically not the first book you wanna study as a brand new Christian. Okay? Um, it's, you know, you wanna read through your Bible a couple of times and then maybe jump to the book of Revelation. But number one, in terms of review, it was meant to be understood. Uh, number two, and this gets into it a little bit of the controversy of the book, but the timing, and in verse [00:02:00] one, chapter one, verse one, uh, John talks about things that must soon take place in chapter one, verse three, the time is near.
And we looked at that terminology and I shared with you in terms of just word meaning, they, they mean what they mean. Okay. When John says, must soon take place, that's what he means when he says the time is near. That's what he means. Um, and I find it, uh, very hard to get a thousand, 2000 years in between the writing of John in the fulfillment of what John was talking about when he uses words like this.
So something to think about, something that I think whatever view you end up taking, you have to deal with these time elements somehow. Uh, number three, uh, there's a blessing in reading the book. John talks about it being a blessing to read the book. Uh, number four, um, it was a letter. The book of Revelation is characterized as a prophecy.
And it is a prophecy. It is an unveiling, but it was also a letter. [00:03:00] It was a letter that was originally written to seven actual historical churches that existed in John's day. Um. And then last but not least, and if you guys want to turn there, uh, chapter one, verse seven. We'll, we'll start with that one tonight.
That's the one we ended on. I won't review everything I said, but we'll at least start it that way. And I would submit to you that chapter one, verse seven is actually the thesis of the book. That's what John is writing about for the rest of the book. So whoever has it, if you're willing to read, please do.
Behold, he is coming with the clouds and every eye will see him. Even those who pierced him and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over him. Yes. Amen. All right, so, um, obviously what we understand about the timeframe concerning that verse is going to color how we interpret the entirety of the verse, um, or the entirety of the book.
I'm sorry, and you'll recall [00:04:00] if you were here week one, we talked about things like dating and all that. So we've already talked about that, so I won't get into it again today, but. What is Jesus talking about? And uh, I argued for, uh, he's talking about, and we know this, looking back, obviously the original readers would've still been looking forward when he wrote, but I believe that, uh, the date of writing falls somewhere around 65, 66, 67 AD and I believe that John is talking about the coming of Christ, the judgment coming of Christ.
'cause he borrows language from the Old Testament, um, upon Jerusalem in 70 ad Now, the first readers didn't know it was gonna be 70 ad they just knew the time was soon. And the book of Revelation was probably written anywhere from 64 to 66 67 ad uh, the way I understand it. Um, so, uh, Christ's coming, and I'm not talking about his second coming, okay?
I'm not talking about, I'm not denying that there's a coming of [00:05:00] Christ in the future because I believe there is. But as we read the Old Testament, we see that God comes in judgment multiple times and it is often described as God coming in the storm, God coming on the whirlwind, God coming on the clouds, and that language is used.
So I believe this is a coming of Yahweh who happens to be Jesus Christ because in verse seven he uses words that, and we looked at this the last time that are almost identical to the words he used with the high priest. At his trial, you will see the son of man coming on the clouds and he was talking to the high priest.
And so again, we have to deal with that language. What did Jesus mean? While I think he means the same thing that John means here, that he was coming in judgment on Jerusalem. So that brings us to verse eight, which is, uh, we didn't get to, I don't think last week. I'll read verse eight. And then, uh, question for you.
Um, I'm the alpha and the Omega says the Lord God. Who is, and who was, and who is to [00:06:00] come, the Almighty. So the, the first question that scholars are gonna ask about this is who is speaking there?
Because earlier in the passage, uh, in verse, uh, four and five, we have the trinity, the Father is spoken of, the spirit is spoken of. Spirit is described in this odd way that we talked about the last time, the seven spirits who were before the throne of God. And then Jesus is clearly talked about in verse uh, five.
So who is, who is the alpha in the omega? Who is the Lord God? Who is the one who was and who is, and to come the Almighty who's being spoken of there. Anybody wanna venture a Jesus? Jesus? You say, Jesus. Okay. Um, and I would argue contextually, uh, that it is Jesus speaking there, that Jesus is talking, [00:07:00] because again, it ties into verse seven and what's being said in verse seven.
Behold he is coming on the clouds. Well, who's coming? I've argued Jesus. This is what he told the high priest. Jesus is coming on the clouds. Jesus is Yahweh. But what I do find fascinating, and this is what troubles some people, regardless of what view you take, is he uses the same language that describes the Father that's used in verse four.
Who was, who is, and the one who, who comes. Jesus uses the same language here. Who is and who was and who is to come The Almighty. Okay? So that throws some people. I would simply submit to you that it's the Trinity coming out full force. Jesus is Yahweh. This book makes very clear that Jesus is Yahweh and just as Yahweh came in the past to judge.
Disobedient nations. So Jesus is coming soon, according to the words, here, to judge A, I believe a particular nation. I believe it's [00:08:00] Jerusalem. Alright, verse nine. Somebody wanna read verse nine for me? Actually, why don't we just each of us take one verse, 'cause there's probably not that many. We'll start with you if you don't mind.
Okay. And just read verse nine, and then Rich 10 and just down the line till we run outta verses in chapter one, I, John am your brother and your partner in suffering and in God's kingdom. And then the patient endurance to which Jesus calls us. I was exiled to the island of Patmos for preaching the word of God and for my testimony about Jesus.
Okay, I was in the spirit on Lord today. I heard the loud voice like a sound of a trumpet.
I did not pick that one to land on. You. Just, just perga, pergamum, perga. And[00:09:00]
sorry, Paula, I turn to see the voice. I saw seven
and white
hand. He held seven.
Seven star, his mouth from a sharp two sword. And his face was like the side shining what I saw at his feet as dead. And he laid his [00:10:00] right hand upon me saying unto me, fear not, I'm the first in the last, I am he that live and was dead and be told I'm alive for every more. Amen. Peace of hell and of death.
Therefore, write the things which you have seen and the things which are, and things which will take place after these things. As for the mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and the seven golden lamps stems, and the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches and the seven lampstands of the seven churches.
Okay, good. And like I told you last week, um, the time references in verse seven are probably the, the most controversial things about chapter one. Once we get to, uh, verses one slightly controversial in chapter nine, and when I say controversial, it's just different schools of thought are gonna take it different ways.
Okay. Um, and we talked about the different schools of thought, but once we get past verse nine, [00:11:00] it's pretty, pretty straightforward. Okay? So, uh, in verse uh, nine, uh, John refers to himself as their brother and literally in the Greek fellow partaker of the tribulation and the kingdom and the perseverance, which were in Jesus.
Uh, and then he refers to himself as on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. So my question would be, and anyone reading this book should ask this same question. What tribulation are we talking about? Okay. Because the book's gonna go on and obviously speak of great tribulation.
Alright? Is that the tribulation that John is speaking of? Because if it is, then John's alive when this tribulation takes place. Okay? And the word, and if you're taking notes, you can jot it down. Uh, the word tribulation, uh, is used in the book of Revelation 1, 2, 3, at least four more [00:12:00] times. Three more times four.
Chapter two verse nine and 10 and 22. So chapter two verses nine, 10 and 22. And chapter seven verse 14. Somebody look up Matthew 24, somebody look up Matthew 24. I'm gonna have you read three verses out of Matthew 24. So let me know when you've got it. If you're willing to read, go. Okay, uh, Matthew 24, verse 9, 21 and 29.
Remind me after nine, then they will deliver you to tribulation and will kill you and you will be hated by all nations because of my name. 24th, 21, 21. For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will 29. But immediately [00:13:00] after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light.
The stars will fall from the sky and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Okay, so the question we have to ask ourselves is, are John and Jesus talking about the same tribulation? If they're not talking about the same tribulation, why are they using similar language? Um, and if they are talking about the same tribulation, it seems to me that John is alive for this tribulation.
Um, so thoughts, comments? I just have a question on 21. What tribulation happened before the beginning of the world? Read verse 21 again. Are then Shelby, a great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time. No. Nor even ever Shelby. Okay. So some of the tribulations that would've taken place soon after creation, um, getting kicked outta the garden.
Oh, after creation? Yes, since the creation of the world. Okay. I thought [00:14:00] so. It's not before. No, it would be since, so you've got the getting kicked outta the garden, you've got the flood, you've got the deportation of Israel and Judah. So it would be referring to those tribulations. Um, does, does that not answer your question?
But there are multiple tribulations? No, I don't think it, because what I wanna know is what tribulation is John talking about? Because he's talking about a very specific tribulation. And one of the things, and we'll get back in case I mis well, did I misunderstand your question? No, I, okay. Yeah. And, and I would say, um.
There are multiple tribulations, but are there multiple tribulations spoken about in scripture? So we want to do our best to narrow it down, uh, keeping in the context of the language that's being used and, and everything else in scripture. So, um, I would argue that, [00:15:00] and I, I think I argued this on the first week and Stacey hates it when I use the word argue.
So I don't mean screaming and yelling. I just, um, my proposition is, and my evidence for that proposition, it's debate. Um, uh, if you notice, when, when, uh, does everyone, hopefully some of you will, 'cause you were here that first week, but do you remember what the Olive discourse is or was? Uh, sermon, I mean we talking Mount of Olive.
Okay, so the Mount of Olive, so Matthew 24 is known as the Olive Discourse and Luke has a version of the Olive It discourse and his is actually. Divided up, and I don't remember the chapters. And Mark has a version of the olive discourse. It's after the, uh, Jesus and the disciples that are at the temple.
They leave the temple, they go to the Mount of Olives, and they come up to him and they ask him several questions. It's debated how many, and basically, you know, when is your kingdom coming? When is the time of the end? When will this 'cause Jesus says this temple will be destroyed. When are these things gonna happen?
And the [00:16:00] interesting thing is you find the all ofit discourse in every gospel except John. And there are many scholars that would argue that the book of Revelation is John's all Ofit discourse. Because he uses a lot of the same language and a lot of the same imagery that we find in Matthew 24. Okay. So I would say a straight reading of the text without trying to get it to say something to fit my preconceived conditions is John is alive and the church is in the midst of tribulation.
And John is going to outline how this tribulation is gonna get more severe and it's going to come to a head in the rest of the chapters. So I think, I think that it makes most sense to see that John is writing about the same great tribulation as Matthew was writing about in Matthew 24, as Mark and Luke were writing about.
Okay? And I know some of this is tough language, but in Matthew chapter [00:17:00] 24, and Jesus uses this, what we often call apocalyptic language. The sun will get dark, the moon will turn to blood, the stars will fall from the heaven. Um, but then Jesus says, and all of this will take place before this generation passes away.
And a lot of people want to throw that into the future. The problem is the exact phraseology. This generation is used no less than 13 times in Matthew. And Matthew 24 is the only place that people wanna make it mean something other than the then living generation. Every, there's no dispute anywhere else in the book of Matthew, and yet Jesus uses, and Matthew writes the exact same terminology.
So I would argue that in Revelation chapter one, verse nine, John is again indicating that things are going to happen soon. In terms of history, uh, as far as I know and church history and the church fathers, um, [00:18:00] they make mistakes. So whether we can trust them or not, but as far as we know from church history, every apostle was martyred except for John.
Okay? Uh, what we do read from church history is, and I think it was when he went to Patmos, he was boiled in oil. We know that, but it didn't kill him, and he was. Uh, relegated to the island of Patmos for a period of time. But church history tells us that he eventually left the island of Patmos, and I forget where, but lived out his days.
So the Apostle John, again, based on church history, 'cause it's not in the scripture, but based on church history, John is the only apostle who has never martyred. Okay? And again, the early date, 65 to 67, the late date, 91 to 92. So depending on how convincing I was several weeks ago, or what you've been taught in the past, that that's the time period that we're dealing with.
Okay? Obviously, [00:19:00] if it's the late date, then this isn't talking about the destruction of Jerusalem. If it's the early date, then it certainly can be talking about the destruction of Jerusalem. All right. Verse 10. Somebody wanna read verse 10 for me?
I was in the spirit on the Lord's Day. Heard behind a loud voice as El Trump. Okay, so a couple of things there. John was in the spirit, most scholars would interpret that as John was in a, for lack of a better word, uh, a lot of scholars will use this language, an ecstatic state. He was either dreaming or he was in a trance.
He was in the midst of revelation, okay? And we, we talked about that from the sermon this Sunday. I don't know what it's like to, to have a dream and God meets you in your dream, and it's actually divine revelation. Uh, but it seems like what John is trying to distinguish here is he probably wasn't sleeping.
He probably wasn't dreaming, but he was in a prophetic state, for [00:20:00] lack of a better way of describing it. Uh, Christ came to him, or at least the angel was sent from Christ to come to him, and he was receiving divine revelation. But what I find really interesting is his next statement, he says, I was in the spirit on the Lord's Day.
And it's interesting 'cause when you break down the Greek, it's not the typical term that's used of the day of the Lord. We, we see that in the Old Testament throughout day of the Lord. We, we see mention of it in the New Testament, this term, literally what he says in the, the Greek is the day that belongs to the Lord.
So it's a slightly different phraseology. So what, how have you understood this phrase in the past? What day of the week is it? Or can we identify the day of the week when he says I was in the spirit on the Lord's Day? Any ideas, guesses, things you've heard in the past? What day is it?
Okay. Saturday or Sunday. Why Saturday or Sunday? You're in the ballpark, I believe. [00:21:00] Okay. Saturday, because that was the day the Jews worship. And Sunday, because that was the day you had rise. Okay. All right. Anybody else they like, like. Um, maybe every day because every day is the day of the Lord. Okay. I I think that's a good take on it.
I think again, 'cause we wanna ask questions and part of the reason I wanna go through this study is to get you guys to ask questions and not just allow yourself to be locked in on what you've been taught before. Okay? And it's the same thing when I'm preaching on a Sunday. And that's why I include the discussion questions.
I don't want you to believe anything because it came outta my mouth. Okay? I want you to go home and search the scriptures and test me and have discussions and be nice, okay? But, you know, have discussions and, you know, is this what scripture says? So it's the same thing here. Now, I would say that John is a little too specific [00:22:00] here for the idea of every day or any day, because at the very least we know it was a very specific day.
Even if it was only one day in history, even if it's not a repeatable. He says, I was in the spirit on the day that belongs to Jesus. And that's the context, the day that belongs to Jesus. So what other possibilities could there be?
And again, it's not just what day of the week might belong to Jesus Sunday. Okay. His resurrection. His resurrection, okay. And that is how most scholars have taken this verse. And in fact, all the way back to it's a Greek work, uh, it was probably written in the second century, but early second century that did a K.
And it's always interesting when you say Greek works because not everyone pronounces them the same. So whether or not you recognize what I'm talking about, but Deke is a Greek word that literally means teaching. And the long English translation of this book is called the [00:23:00] Teaching of the 12, or the Teaching of the Apostles.
And it's a rather famous book. It's a really good book. You can get it online. Um, it certainly was early. It talks about all kinds of things. It, it talks about traveling preachers, it talks about communion, the Lord's table. It's a fascinating books, not scripture. Okay? It's extra biblical. But ever since the de decay, which again, early first century, early second century, um, the day of the Lord has been identified as Sunday.
Okay? Does scripture without any, you know, beyond a shadow of a doubt black and white identify it as Sunday? No, scripture doesn't. Okay. But it certainly makes sense when you think of it that it would be the day he rose from the dead. That the day of the Lord, the day that Jesus owns the day that especially connected to Jesus would be the Resurrection Day Sunday.
Um, but whatever conclusion you come to, um, and I'll just read the passage, uh, comes in chapter 14 and the dedicate talks [00:24:00] about when you gather together each Lord's day and the Greek is identical. Break bread and give thanks. So they're clearly talking about the day the church gathers together. We know historically that day was Sunday.
Okay? Because it was always tied to the resurrection of Christ. So, uh, many would conclude that John has this vision on a Sunday. Verse 11. Um, so the spirit is, uh, talking to John, saying, write in the book what you see, and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamum, to thy retiree, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Odio.
And the thing that I would simply say, and I didn't look it up today, I will try to look it up before next week, or at least before we get to the church. There's only one church, and I forget which one that scholars even debate whether or not it historically existed in the first century. Okay? And I think there are good [00:25:00] arguments for believing that all of these churches existed in the first century.
These are all churches, all but one you can read about in the book of Acts, and especially the Church of Ephesus. I mean, we even have an epistle that was written to the church in Ephesus. So I would argue that all of these John is dealing with historic churches and remember the different views. The recapitulating view would say that these churches just represent different churches down throughout the centuries.
Okay? The historical view would say that each one of these church represents a specific time period, and it was the condition of the church during that time period. Um, now I will argue here very shortly that John is writing to specific churches, but he writes in a way that everything he writes to one specific church that applies to that specific church.
The principles apply to all churches at all times. So the principles that we read would apply to our church. So when we get to the first church, the [00:26:00] church in Ephesus, and he says, you've left your first love. We need to figure out what, what does that mean? What does he mean? What is the first love that we could possibly leave?
And then we need to keep that from happening here. We don't wanna be a church that's characterized as leaving our first love. When he gets to one of the other churches, and I don't have 'em all memorized, but he says, you're neither hot nor cold. You're lukewarm, and I'm about to vomit you outta my mouth.
We wanna make sure that we either hot or cold. And the big deal in those churches is hot water. Had to use cold water, had to use Luke. Water was disgusting, lukewarm water. So if you were hot, that meant you were good. If you were cold, that meant you were good. If you were lukewarm Christ, and I'll vomit you outta my mouth.
Okay? So it applied to that particular church. But obviously we wanna take those principles and we wanna make sure that we're never lukewarm here, that we're useful, that we're making an impact. So I believe these are seven historical churches. Somebody wanna read verse 11. Oh, we just did. [00:27:00] Uh, somebody read verse 12.
12 and 13. Can I turn to see the voice that spoke, that spoke with me and being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks and in the midst of the seven candlesticks, one light un, the sun of man boiled with the garment down to the foot and a gt, uh, about the caps with the golden rule. Okay, so just a, uh, couple of really quick comments and then we're actually gonna turn to Daniel chapter seven.
What do you think of, and I know you've all read the book so you know, you know, and we just read it today, you know that the seven lampstands or candlesticks, you can translate it either way, represents the seven churches, one lampstand per church. Okay. But what do you think of, what's the Old Testament background?
Where do we get this idea of a lampstand or candlestick or Taber Tabernacle. Tabernacle Temple. Yes. Okay. It was where God dwelt. Okay. [00:28:00] And God dwells in his churches. He promises us that. In addition to that, uh, what does Jesus say about light? He'll be like a light on the hill. Okay. We're to be the light of the world.
Okay? Um, so describe the churches as light as a candlestick. Something that's tied into the tabernacle and the temple, and the meaning that Jesus uses, which is interesting. Based on the sermon. Jesus was referring to Hanukkah, which is not commanded in scripture, but it was the festival of lights. Um, and he says, we're supposed to be the light of the world, that we don't light a lamp and put something over it.
We want that light to be seen. The churches are called lampstands or lights or candlesticks. I've seen one really liberal translation translated flashlight. That's not what it means. Um, but they're light, they're producers of light. So in that sense, okay, flashlight, if you're trying to communicate maybe, but, um, we're supposed to be lights.
And so he describes this as lights and he ties it into the temple terminology. [00:29:00] Um, and he saw one like the son of Man. Where does that language come from?
Jesus. Okay. Makes you think of Jesus. That was a, a name that Jesus referred to himself, son of man. Where else? Does anyone remember where else you find that language in the Old Testament? David. David was called the, wasn't he? Not off the top of my head, but I'm not saying you're wrong. I can't think of one off the top of my head.
Okay. I think there some could be. Yeah. I, I wouldn't argue against you until I double checked, so could be okay. Anywhere else. Ezekiel was often called the son of man, and we find that language in Daniel, son of man. Okay. Um, and then we see the language. He was dressed in a road, reaching to his feet. And girded across his chest, a golden sash.
Does that remind you of anything in the Old Testament?[00:30:00]
Like the Levitical priest? Ooh, right on priesthood. That was the way the priest dressed. So we have one like the Son of Man, and we see that in Ezekiel. We see that in Daniel, maybe of David. David was a type of Christ, so I would have no problem if that were true. Um, he's talking to, uh, well, we're gonna find out.
He's talking to the stars of the seven Lampstands. Um, but he looks like the son of Van. He's clothed in the robe. He's closed in clothed in priestly garb. Before we jump to Jan, Daniel, uh, somebody wanna read 14 and 15,
his head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow and his eyes like a flame of fire. His feet were like fine brass, as if were fined in a furnace. And his voice as a sound. Okay. Anyone recall where that symbology might come from? That's Daniel. Okay. That is definitely Daniel. So if you [00:31:00] would everyone turn to Daniel chapter seven
because I believe that what the author is doing here is he's making, he's using language that forces your mind back to Daniel chapter seven. Okay. And if you are there, would somebody kindly read the first eight verses
The first year of Bel Shaar? He in Avallon, Daniel saw a dream and visions in his head as he lay on his bed and he wrote the dream down and said the following summary of the matter. Daniel answered and said I was looking in my vision. By night and behold, four wind of Evan stirring up grade C and four great beasts.
Were coming up from the sea, different from one another. The first was like a lion and had the wings of an eagle. I kept looking until its wings were plucked and it was lifted up from the ground and [00:32:00] made to stand on two feet like a man, and the heart of a man was given to it. And behold, another beast, a second one, and a likeness of a bear.
And it was raised up on one side and the three ribs were in its mouth between its teeth, and thus they said to it, arise devour much meat. After this, I kept looking and behold another one like a leopard, which had on its back four wings of a bird. The beast also had foreheads and dominion was given to it.
After this, I kept looking in the night, visions and behold, a fourth beast. Fearsome and terrifying and extraordinarily strong, and it had large iron teeth. It dev bowed and crushed and trampled down the remainder with its feet. And it was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had 10.
Okay. The, the bear one always makes me hang hungry. 'cause I think it's spare ribs you got, I don't know why, but anyway, I thought I'd just share that with you. But look at verse two real quick. Daniel said, I was [00:33:00] looking in my vision by night and behold, the four winds of heaven were stirring up the Great Sea, typically throughout the Bible and also used in the New Testament.
This way the sea often reversed to the gentile empires. Okay. I think I'm not gonna take the time to try to prove that to you, but I, that's an easy one to prove. Okay. The sea is often referring to the Gentile empires that were outside of Israel. Okay? So that language, and it's interesting. He speaks of the sea and then he immediately goes to four empires.
Anyone, uh, what have you been taught? Who are those four empires and is this the first time Daniel talks about it? No, it's not. Okay. I think it's chapter one actually, and maybe it's two, but, uh, the statue of Nebuchadnezzar, the dream of Nebuchadnezzar, he has this dream and there's a golden head, and he works his way down to the feet.
And, um, and we'll see the same thing here. How many kingdoms are in Nebuchadnezzar's dream? Anyone remember? It's four and then there's a fifth. Very good. It's four, and then there's a [00:34:00] fifth. And the fifth kingdom is a kingdom cut out of rock without hands. And the rock come and it cut crushes the four other kingdoms.
And this rock kingdom will be a kingdom without end. We're gonna see that in chapter seven as well. Okay. What were the four kingdoms? Real quick? On the, uh, on verse two, is there any relation with the sea and water with Leviathan? Uh, yeah, I think so. I think it's, it's, it's tied to that figure throughout Leviathan.
Uh, again, depending how you take it. And I think there are different contexts. Leviathan could be a picture of Satan. Okay. And Satan rules the sea. Okay. Um, in other contexts, Leviathan might be an actual creature that existed at one point. Uh, okay. I do think Dragons probably existed at some point. Um, so yeah, there's a couple of ways to take that, but yes, Leviathan is often tied to the sea as well.
Um, Landon, you had a question? Um, I just thought I knew [00:35:00] names that actually forgot one. Well, give us the ones you know. Um, Babylon, Persia. I'm pretty sure one of them in Rome. Okay. And then, so you're missing number three. So Babylon, Persia, Rome. What come, what came after Persia? I'll give you a hint. Mighty Warrior, but he died early and it was split up into four parts.
Um, Alexander, you nailed it. Greece. Yep. Alexander comes on the scene, conquers the world, but he dies. And Greece is broke up into four parts. You get that picture here, you get that picture in chapter one. You get that picture in a couple other places in Daniel. Um. But again, most scholars from all the different schools, when they read Daniel Most, I'm not gonna say all, I haven't come across one, but most would see those are the kingdoms that are being spoken of.
Okay? Babylon, Persia, [00:36:00] Greece, and then Rome. So what would be, I kind of gave it away, but what would be the Kingdom of Stone that crushes all these other kingdoms that last forever cut without hands. The cornerstone Heaven. What's that? Kingdom of heaven. Christ Christ's kingdom. Okay, so again, I'm just trying to set up the context.
Somebody read for me, somebody different read versus nine through 12.
I kept looking until the pros were set up and the ancient update took his seat. This was like white snow. His head reflect pure wolf and the thrones lay with flame. Its wheels were burning by the river of fire was flowing and coming out from before thousands upon thousands for attending, and the myriads upon Myriad were standing before him and the [00:37:00] court sat and the were open.
Keep going to verse 12. Yeah, just, okay. I got two, light eight.
And even magnified itself to equal the command the host, and remove the regular sacrifice and sanctuary down and on the account of the transgression, the host among, okay. I think you skipped somewhere. Chapter seven, verse 11. No. Oh, I kept looking. Okay. Pages kept booking. Because of the sound of the boys.
We, which were, which the horn was spook. I kept looking until the bees was sl and its body was destroyed and was given to the burning fire. And for the rest of the bees, their domain was taken away. But the extension point through. Okay. Alright, so, uh, where else have [00:38:00] we read that language? Just think of the throne.
Uh, very good. Ezekiel. Yeah. Wheels burning fire. A river of fire flowing, coming out from before him. Thousands upon thousands attending him. Marrieds upon married, standing before him. Yeah. Ezekiel draws that same picture. And who's on the throne in Ezekiel's picture? God. God. Yahweh, specifically. Okay. Here.
God is referred to as the ancient of days. Okay. Because he predates the days. Okay. Um. And what I find interesting is clearly it's the father that we're talking about here, okay? It's Yahweh. But again, it seems to be pointing to the father who's called the ancient of days. And what I find fascinating is he's described the same way that Jesus is described in Revelation chapter one.
His head and his hair were like [00:39:00] white wool like snow. His eyes were like a flame of fire. His feet were like burnish bronze, which had been made to glow in a furnace. And his voice was like the sound of many waters. So again, what we have in the book of Revelation is deity being attributed to Jesus. We believe in one God, that one God has many names, but his covenant name is Yahweh, and that's the name that's used of him most often in the Old Testament.
But he is three persons, father, son, and Holy Spirit. And all three of those persons can be described the same. So when the ancient of days, and there's a clear distinction between the ancient of days and the one who comes to him in Daniel, the ancient of days is described as divine and lofty and holy and on fire and scary and all this stuff.
And that same description is being used of Jesus in chapter one of Revelation. But let's keep going. If somebody would read verses 13 and 14 for me, I was watching in the night provisions and [00:40:00] behold wine like the son of man coming his of and
was given dominion and glory in the kingdom that all people's nations and languages should serve him. His dominion is an em which shall not pass away his kingdom, which shall not be destroyed. Okay? And behold, with the clouds of heaven, one like the son of man was coming. Revelation Chapter seven, I'm coming on the Clouds of Heaven.
He uses the words of the son of man and to him was given dominion. Verse 14, in glory and a kingdom. This is the fourth kingdom. This is the Kingdom of Christ. Okay? And I would submit to you if we allow, if we allow the Old Testament to give us the background of the New Testament. This is the language that Jesus is using in the Book of Revelation, which again helps us date what's going on here.[00:41:00]
John's first kingdom is a vision of Jesus coming before the ancient of days and receiving his kingdom. And we'll see that laid out when we get a little bit further, who's worthy to undo the seals and all that. And we see God on the throne and we see Jesus, the lamb and the lion slain before the throne.
And Jesus is gonna receive a kingdom because Jesus is the only one worthy to take these seals off. So all of this keeps weaving itself together. Um. And the idea back to to Book of Revelation or first of all, questions before I, I don't wanna jump that fast on you. Any questions? Do you see the connection?
Do you at least see the possibility of the connection if you've never heard this before? Same language, same description. The Kingdom of Christ clearly presented in Daniel and we see the same language in Matthew 24 and we see the same language in chapter one of Revelation to me, with all humility, you have to try really [00:42:00] hard, I think not to see that connection.
I am waiting just in case there's any questions.
Alright. Back to the book of Revelation verse 16. Actually, I have a quick question. Question too late. Time up. No, we moved on. Um, what is the significance of the beasts that are described in Daniel and how they relate to Revelation? Because I understand like the language comparison, but what exactly is like the, okay, so the significance of the beasts in Daniel and how it relates to Revelation is at least twofold.
Okay. Uh, the fact that beasts are empires mm-hmm. Gives us a clue how to interpret the beasts in Revelation. Might they be empires and not just people. Okay. Okay. That's how the Old Testament used it. Okay. [00:43:00] Lastly, Rome's description in Daniel, I will argue when we get there, fits perfectly. Rome's description in the book of Revelation.
Whatever that fourth kingdom was, is being talked about in the book of Revelation and what happens to the fourth kingdom? Jesus camp comes and he crushes it. Okay, so are you saying that that's like another example of how the timing works out for it to be? Yes. Okay. Yes, yes. And we'll see in the book of Revelation because I've already argued that the primary point is judgment on Jerusalem.
But we'll see, Jerusalem was writing on Rome. The Harlett was writing Rome. Rome ended up helping the Harlett. So Rome experiences some judgment as well. And Rome eventually falls another couple years after this, but it's punished in part as Jerusalem is being punished. Okay. So that would be the connection, I would argue.
Okay. Alright. Verse 16. Um, in his right hand, he held seven [00:44:00] stars and out of his mouth came a sharp, two-edged sword. And his face was like the sun shining in strength. And I saw him, I fell as a dead man. He placed his right hand upon me saying to not be afraid, fry him the first and the last. So a couple of things.
We know that later. The seven stars are, um, identified as the seven angels to the churches. Okay, in verse 20, if you wanna jump ahead, as for the mystery of the seven stars, which you see in my right hand and the seven golden lampstands, the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches. And the seven lampstands are the seven churches.
Okay? Most people, uh, would interpret this as the stars are not heavenly angels. We talked about this a little bit either last week or the week before, the word angel in both Hebrew and Greek. The primary meaning of those, that term, both in Hebrew and in Greek, Malach and Anas is messenger. Okay? [00:45:00] So tip, the first thing we wanna jump to whenever we see angel is messenger, and then allow the context to tell us what kind of messenger it is.
Is it a heavenly messenger or is it an earthly messenger? Okay. You may or you may not know this, but in, uh. Um, where did I put it? I thought I wrote it down, did I not?
No, I did.
Sometimes it's looking me straight in the face. Verse four, two. Okay.
All right. Um, I wanted to give you the references. I may not be able to give you the references or I'll find them later as I'm reading through this, but John the Baptist in, uh, I think it's Mark chapter one, verse four, John the Baptist. Uh, when Mark quotes Isaiah and says, I'm sending my messenger ahead of him to prepare his way, and we know contextually we're [00:46:00] talking about John the Baptist, the Greek word there is I'm sending my angel to prepare his way.
So multiple times in the New Testament, it uses the term angel with reference to a human me. Okay. And here Jesus is communicating to the seven angels of the seven churches. Okay? And he's communicating to the seven angels of the seven churches, whom, again, I believe to be the pastors, okay? Because the pastors are supposed to communicate this message to the church.
And when the pastors aren't doing their job, the church's light goes out when the elders aren't doing the things that God has called them to do. Just like the leaders in Israel, Ezekiel talks a lot about this. There's, there's those prophecies of the watchmen who weren't doing their job. The pastors, the elders are the watchmen of the churches.
They're the messengers of the churches, and they're not supposed to create their own message. They're supposed to take the message of scripture and transmit that to the church, [00:47:00] hopefully in understandable ways, and breaking it down and things like that. So that's who Jesus, I believe, is communicating. And again, this is not controversial, um, but the seven stars are in his right hand.
And obviously the sharp twoedged sword. Again, the word of God, this phraseology of sharp two-edged sword is used throughout the scriptures. So somebody, uh, do me a favor and look up Hebrews chapter four verse 12. Somebody else look up Revelation chapter 19, and I'll give you two verses 15 and 21. So Hebrews chapter four, verse 12, and then Revelation chapter 19, verses 15 to 21.
And whoever has the Hebrews passage, verse chapter four, verse 12. Go ahead and read it
and sharpen story as far as the division of the soul and spirit, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions. Okay, so the word of [00:48:00] God in Hebrews chapter four is compared to this twoedged sword only, it's sharper than any earthly twoedged. Because it can make the kinds of cuts that a, a surgeon can't do with a scalpel.
Alright, who has revelation chapter 19, verse 15. From his mouth came a sharp soar, did strike down the nations. He will rule them with an iron rod. He will release the fierce wrath of God the Almighty, like Jews flowing from a vine press. Okay? And then verse 21, their entire army was killed by the sharp sword that came from the mouth of the one riding the white horse.
And the vultures all gorged themselves on the dead bodies. Okay? And now contextually, and you can go back and read it yourself, but in chapter 19, the one riding the right white horse with the two edged sword coming out of his mouth is Jesus Again, the sword is the word of God. And Jesus will judge, and it's used in graphic language.
Jesus will judge the nations with the word of God. And the word of God will either save or it will destroy. [00:49:00] What are our weapons? How do we conquer the nations? What are the weapons of our warfare? The word of God. Okay. And the problem is, I think especially with the modern church, is we don't believe the word of God is strong enough.
We don't believe the word of God can accomplish what scripture says it can accomplish. And yet the Bible says that the word of God can destroy fortresses, can change world views, can literally metamorphosize people and change their thinking. And I think we have a picture here of what the word of God does.
And this is why I said a couple of weeks ago that uh, the Book of Revelation is actually one of the most encourages encouraging books in scripture. And it should encourage us because it shows us the power of God's word, the very word that God has given to us, the very same weapon that Jesus uses the church's.
That are supposed to [00:50:00] be the light of the world are supposed to use, pastors are supposed to use to prepare their congregants, to go out into the world and use it. The very same word. And so the question that I would ask you as we read this book is, do we believe that it's as powerful as the Bible says it is?
And if we did, would we not wield it more? That was verse 16, uh, verse 17. And this is John speaking. When I saw him, when I saw the son of man, when I saw him, I fell at his feet like a dead man. And he placed his right hand upon me saying, did not be afraid. I'm the first and the last. So again, he identifies himself as God.
He identifies himself as Jesus, which he just did earlier in the text. Um, but it's fascinating because when John sees him and, and yes, this is, you know, whether or not, and I wanna be really careful here, but whether or not this is what Jesus actually looked like or whether or not John is just using.
Biblically descriptive language. It does bring out the [00:51:00] character of Jesus. He's one with the ancient of days. He's one who will come in judgment. He's one that is all powerful. He's one that exercises authority over all the nations. And when John saw Jesus, what was his first reaction to fall as a dead man?
And I wouldn't say this if it came from somebody sitting at the table, but I cannot tell you how much negative feedback Matt and I have received because we kneel during confession. And yet John fell as a dead man. And I think sometimes we become too familiar with Christ because he is gracious and we can, and we can read kind stories about him in the gospels and, and there should be a sense of love and familiar familiarity in the fact that Jesus calls us his brother and, and we shouldn't, uh, be so scared that we can't talk to him.
But we still need to recognize who this man is. He is the [00:52:00] God man and he's the judge of the world. And just like our confession says, he will come to judge the quick and the dead. And he is no one to be trifled with. And he is no less powerful than his father. And so he is described in language reminiscent of God the Father, Yahweh God, throughout the Old Testament,
John has the proper response. He falls as a dead man. Somebody wanna read verse 18. I am he who lives and was dead. And behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys to fees and of death. Okay, just outta curiosity, what version are you reading? King James. Okay, that's what I thought. And somebody else who read it earlier was reading The King James.
'cause um, the ah man is not in every version, but it is in the King James. Um, so again, I'm the one living. I was dead. Pretty clear who's being talked about here. Jesus was alive, he was crucified. Now he's alive forevermore, and Jesus has the keys of death in Hades. Two things [00:53:00] that I'll point out about the keys of death in Hades.
Um, number one, uh, I think it speaks of sovereignty over salvation. And again, we don't like to give Jesus credit for that. And I'm not taking away human responsibility or human choice or anything like that. I'm saying both are presented in scripture, but Jesus makes it very clear. I am sovereign. I have the keys of death in Hades.
I determine who will be saved. I determine who comes to eternal life. That is not, that does not take away the fact that he calls us to respond and repent in turn. And we have the ability to do that and we don't, or we do, or whatever. I mean, and there's a whole lot more that can be said. And Jesus is sovereign.
Over those things. And what I find interesting is, and I didn't write down the verses, but if you go back further, uh, when Jesus is talking to his apostles, he gives them the keys of the kingdom. And when you [00:54:00] take this symbology back even further, you can take it all the way back to David in the keys of the palace, and which again was a picture of God's kingdom and everything else.
But Jesus is sovereign here. The other thing that I think is important is this idea of death in Hades. And this is something that I wanna study a little further out, um, but it is a conclusion that I've come to, and I'm certainly leaning towards, but in the Old Testament, the Old Testament writers speak of Sheel.
Okay? And I think the New Testament, when the New Testament writers speak of Sheel, they typically speak of Hades or gona. Okay. And basically when you, you put it all together, and I'm just giving you an overview here. Um, but when you put it together, shill was the place that in the Old Testament when you died, that's where you went.
Okay? You went, uh, to one side or the other. One side [00:55:00] would've been something like paradise or the bosom of Abraham, and the other side would've been Johanna or Hell. Okay? And when Jesus came, and when Jesus died on the cross, um, and we read this in our confession. So let me read our confession to you. And when I say our confession, it's the Apostles creed.
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and Earth. And in Jesus Christ is only son, our Lord, who is conceived by the Holy Spirit. Born of the Virgin Mary suffered under poncho's, palate was crucified, died and buried. He descended into hell. The third day, he rose again from the dead. This phraseology in the confession.
And you can see this when you read the Greek version, but it comes from Acts chapter two. Somebody look up Acts chapter two, and I'm gonna have you read verses 27 and 31.
Got it? Mm-hmm. For you will not leave my soul in Hades, [00:56:00] nor will you allow your holy one to see corruption. Okay? And he's citing Psalm 1610. And then Acts chapter two, verse 31. He foreseeing this spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ that his soul was not left in Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.
Okay? So this is ancient language in the creed. He descended into hell, but it's based on these verses. He descended into Sheel. He descended into Hades. And when we put it all together, when we read Peter and some other things, and I think all of this is demonstrable from scripture alone, um. When the Saints in the Old Testament died, they didn't go straight to heaven like we do.
They went to a, basically, they went to a holding tank. They went to shield. They did not go into the presence of God because Christ had not died yet. And one of the first things Christ did when he died is he went to shield. And according to Ephesians chapter two and three, he led a host of captives free.
And he took [00:57:00] all those Old Testament saints and he led them into the very presence of God Almighty. And now they are in heaven. And that is one of the biggest difference between what Christ accomplished on the cross and what the Old Testament saints experienced. They didn't immediately go into the presence of God, but when we die because of the finished work of Christ, we go immediately into the presence of God or Hell.
Those are the two options. I'm sorry. That's okay. Um. But that's what Jesus is talking about when he says, I have the keys of death in Hades. And later at the end of the book, we'll see that death in Hades are cast into the lake of fire. And when we get there, we will ask questions about timing and all that stuff.
But ultimately, death in Hades are cast into the lake of fire. And now because of the finished work of Christ, none of his saints go to shield. None of his saints go to Hades. Awaiting. We go [00:58:00] straight to heaven. Um, verse 19, we'll wrap it up with verse 19 and 20, and then if you have questions, you can ask him and we'll move on.
And I think verse 19 is another timing verse. Therefore write the things which you have seen. I would argue that's chapter one and the things which are chapters two and three and the things which will take place after these things. That's chapters four through 22. There's one way to, uh, outline the book of Revelation.
The things you have seen. Chapter one, the things we charge, chapters two and three, the things that will soon that will take place. I don't want to insert words, the things that will take place after these things. Chapter 22, 4 through 22. And then the last verse of, uh, chapter one, verse 20. And we've kind of talked about this, but as for the mystery of the seven stars, which you saw in my right hand and the seven Golden lampstands, the seven stars are the messengers [00:59:00] of the seven churches.
And the seven lampstands are the seven churches. And we won't do it tonight, but when we turn the page and we get to chapter two to the angel of the church in Ephesus Wright, to the messenger, to the pastor, to the elders of the Church of Ephesus Wright. So, um, that brings us to the end of chapter one. Uh, questions, thoughts, comments, question.
Do you think that's.
A current belief system. In other words, do you think that ages influence certain denominations, certain churches, or do you think that's in reference to the original? Okay. So I would argue that those are not heavenly beings at all. Those are the pastors and the pastor. Just the pastors. And so in that sense, that's still true of the seven churches, Jesus speaks to the pastors in a special way, not, not outside this book.[01:00:00]
Okay. But he calls them any man that becomes a pastor and is not called is a fool. And I would use stronger language, but we're in mixed company. I mean, if you're not called, it ain't fun. Okay. Um, but it comes with a responsibility. And as I said earlier, we're supposed to communicate the message of this book and prepare the congregation.
So they're referred to as angels, but again, the word literally means messengers and then the messengers of the seven churches. So yeah, I would say they're not heavenly beings at all. Somebody else had a question. Go ahead. About the death. And I had a coworker who asked me one time who was in charge of hell.
And I was baffled. 'cause I never thought of this before, but I, I read this verse to him, death and hate because I figured that meant Jesus was in charge of hell. Is that true? Would that, well, Jesus is sovereign over so hell's tricky 'cause Jesus is sovereign over all things. [01:01:00] Okay? And oftentimes Christians will speak of hell is the absence of God.
And there's truth there. There's, it's the absence of the experience of God. But God is still omnipresent. God is still infinite. So is God present in hell in terms of He's everywhere? Yes. Okay. So who rules? Hell God. Okay. Satan doesn't, he's casted in the lake of fire. Okay? The demons don't, they're being punished just like men and women are being punished.
Um, hell is described as a dark place. It's not a place where you're gonna go party with your friends. It's not a place where you're gonna have any company. Okay. Um, but yes, it's Jesus who holds the keys of death in Hades. Okay. So he would be sovereign over it. It seems like the worldly view is that st Yes.
That is the worldly view. That's the cartoonist view. And sadly, that's what I think a lot of Christians think. Okay. And it's not all bad. I mean, some of it comes from things like CS Lewis's screw [01:02:00] tape letters and stuff like that. And, um, but it's not gonna continue that way. Okay. And the, the angels, there are some angels we read about in Peter and other places that have been cosigned to darkness.
So I believe there are some angels that are already in the lake of fire. Okay. It's described as the lake of fire because it's judgment. It's described as darkness because it's judgment. So it's not a contradiction, it's just two ways of describing judgment and a place you don't wanna be. Um, but not all angels, fallen angels.
Demons, whatever categories there are, not all of them are in hell yet. So the church still has a job to do. I have a question, and you don't have to like give me all of them right now, but I would like to write them down. I was always raised with the top belief that when you die you don't immediately go to heaven.
And I also the idea that like hell is not real, if that makes sense. Okay. [01:03:00] So, uh, more like hell is just like, you don't exist anymore, not necessarily like an actual place. So do you have verses that I can look up that would support the idea that, well, those two things actually. Okay. Uh, the one right off the top of my head is one Corinthians 15 in terms of the, what's called, what theologians call the intermediate state, the fact that when we die, uh, also you've got Philippians chapter two when Paul says, um.
To live as Christ. 'cause I'm serving Christ to die as gain because I'll be with Christ. Mm-hmm. Okay. So for being with Christ and all that, those are the two verses as far as you know, hell and that stuff. If, or, uh, revelation Chapter 20 speaks of the lake of fire. What's interesting is the English word hell, uh, is okay.
It's an okay translation, but in the Greek it's usually the word gona. And a lot of people will object to that because gona was basically a garbage dump [01:04:00] outside of Jerusalem. And there's, there's more that the Bible says about gona. But basically it was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. But it was the word that Jesus used to picture hell because it was a garbage dump, uh, dump that was continually burning.
It was nasty, it was foul, and it was always on fire because that's how they took care of their garbage. It never ceased to burn. Okay. So Jesus uses that language to describe Hell. And then the other New Testament authors continue to use that language. But we have very clear language in Revelation 20 about the lake of fire.
Mm-hmm. And about Hades and death. And I'd have to go back and double check the word. I don't know if they used Gehenna in Revelation 20, but those things being cast into the eternal lake of fire. And then there's other verses that talk about people who are separated from God eternally suffering eternally.
It's not a pleasant doctrine. I mean, it's not, and I would love, I, I would love if what's called soul sleep were true. Mm-hmm. That the unbeliever [01:05:00] stands in judgment and then he's basically annihilated. But that is not what scripture teaches. What about the verse that talks about that we would be walking on the ashes of those.
Yeah. I would, since off the top of my head, I can't remember where that's at, so I'd wanna know the context, but, um, it sounds like, uh. And I could be dead wrong here, but it sounds like an Old Testament passage. It's in the New Testament. I know that is it in the New Testament. New Testament. Okay. I'd have to see the context to answer intelligently, but it sounds like Old Testament, uh, tology for lack of a And yes, the saints will be walking on the graves of the unbelievers.
I mean, I, I could see that being used in the right context. So I don't think it means they're annihilated, because elsewhere you talk about eternal suffering and eternal torment, and the word eternal, which is used the same word for eternal life. So if it doesn't mean eternal, eternal here, then we can question whether life is eternal.[01:06:00]
Okay. So you gotta let it mean what it means. And if life is eternal, then death for the believer is also eternal. Where did Purg from? Purgatory came from Dante. Okay. And the Catholic church. No. So also there are some, my understanding is, and I haven't read this in a long, long time, but I have read it. Um, my understanding is there's some hints of it in the Maccabees as well.
So, but, so you have probably seed form in the Maccabees, uh, Dante in the Catholic church, or the Catholic church picked up on it. Dante took it and ran, um, purgatorium, I believe that's his second book. Um, and uh, that's where it came from. But it's not a biblical doctrine. So do you believe that we face our judgment the moment we die then?
And you answer for your, your life? I tend to believe that we face a kind of judgment, uh, the second we die. [01:07:00] Um, but I do believe that there's a coming white throne judgment. So I still think there's some form of a day of judgment. Okay. Uh, where the unbelievers will be resurrected and face judgment. Now, whether or not we stand in judgment at the great white throne, I'm not a hundred percent clear on.
'cause I feel like, at least like mind you, like, I was taught these things when I was very young. So like my understanding's not solid. But from what I understood then the idea was that you don't go to heaven and tell judgment. And so that was the idea of, you know, basically okay, like when you die, you're just sleeping dead in Christ shall rise first.
Yeah. Right. So it's like, why are any of those that are in Christ, why are they a rising first? They should already us up. Okay. 'cause I think, I think traditionally that's been understood as their physical body. So now I believe, and again, I'm working through a lot of this, so this is not a hill to die on.
Um, but I believe when you read, uh, [01:08:00] one Corinthians 15, um, I think you die now. I believe I'm a monist. So I don't believe in a separate body, soul. I believe that we are living souls. Okay? When you die, God keeps something alive and that something goes to heaven. It goes into the very presence of Christ. I think it's possible based on one Corinthians 15, and I need to do a lot more work on it, but I think it's possible that you're given either a temporary body at that time or possibly a resurrection body.
Okay? I lean towards temporary. That to me seems like what Paul is talking about because we're not supposed to be boless. We're, we're a living soul. We're a bodily soul. Um, but then traditionally it's been believed, and I don't see any reason to reject it, that, um, at the great white throne judgment, just prior to the great white throne judgment, there's a universal resurrection of both the good and the, and the evil.
And we're resurrected and we enter into glory with our bodies. The unbelievers that stand before the great white throne, they're [01:09:00] judged and they're casting the lake of fire. So where do the unbelievers go? You may not already answered this, but unbelievers as well, meet Jesus right away, means God right away.
And they're either thrown. Um, I don't, I don't know that I'm as clear of that. I mean, obviously we do. The second we die, we are whisked into the presence of Christ. That's why we all want to hear welcome, good, and faithful servant. Okay? As far as the unbelievers, I think they go straight to what we would call hell and they await final judgment, but they experience the pains of judgment from day one.
So, man, it seems like dying early is like die before judgment, right? Yeah, yeah. Alright, I'm gonna pray. I'm gonna go ahead and close us. If you have any more questions, uh, feel free to stay and ask. But, uh, for those of you that may need to go or want to go, let's pray. Father in heaven, thank you so much for your word.
Thank you Lord. That, and this may sound strange, but Father thank you that we haven't figured it [01:10:00] out 100%. Um. Mostly because that proves we're not you. We, our thoughts are not yours. Our ways are not yours. And there are gonna be things about you that are simply beyond our comprehension. But thank you, Lord, that we've got the word, we've got the church and we've got each other.
And we can grapple through this and we can talk about it, and we can discuss it, and we can challenge each other and we can be challenged. And God, I pray that we glory in that, that we look forward to that. That we never settle and ever think that we've got it all down, but that we have to have convictions, father.
But let us be humble and let us be challenged, um, and let us work through this. And in that challenge, in that working, uh, let us grow in our faith and in our knowledge. Thank you for your word. Thank you for the Book of Revelation. Um, thank you for Christ Jesus. Thank you for the church. We ask all this in his name and all of God's people said, amen.
[01:11:00] Amen.
