Revelation - 2:8-17
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[00:00:00] So we'll go ahead and get started. And, uh, so the handouts are over here.
They're the same as the last time. Um, but if you need one, uh, so I'll start off again with just a little bit of review. Um, last time we actually only did, uh, the first seven verses of chapter two. Um, we did the church in Ephesus. And, uh, a couple of the things in terms of the church in Ephesus, uh, they didn't tolerate evil men.
Um, they tested, uh, false apostles, false teachers. Uh, however they abandoned their first love. We talked about that. Um, they hated the deeds of the tians. Um, and it seems we'll look at that again tonight, that the tations are kind of tied to the teaching of Balum. Uh, we'll see that in, uh, verses 14 and 15.
But again, that's just a real quick review in terms of the church in [00:01:00] Ephesus. So if you guys would open up to Revelation chapter two, and if somebody would like to read verses eight to 11, uh, this is the Church of Smyrna
Smyrna and Angel of the Church of Smyrna W right, or wrote the first and the last who was dead and has come to life saying this, I know your tribulations and your poverty, but you are rich.
And the blaspheme by those who say you are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of statements, do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison that you may. Be tested and you will have tribulations 10 days. Be faithful un until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
And he who has an ear, let him hear what the spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes death, no overcomes, shall not be hurt by the second death. [00:02:00]
All right, um, so a little background on Smyrna. Um, Smyrna had been destroyed about 700 years earlier. Uh, again, this is first century, I, I believe it's late sixties, but even if you took the late date, you're still gonna kind of arrive at the same thing.
Uh, but they were destroyed about 700 years earlier. Laid in rooms for 300 years and then was rebuilt. Um, it was the second largest and apparently the most beautiful city in the province of Asia. Um, and it's the only one of the seven cities that still exist today. So you can still go to Smyrna today. I don't know that there's a church there.
Um, but the other thing that's really important because, and the reason I give you some of the background is it's interesting how John, the spirit takes off and incorporates often some of the background into what he's writing. But Smyrna had the largest Jewish population, the Vinny [00:03:00] Asian city. So, um, so beginning with verse eight, and again, stop, ask questions as we go, um, uh, to the angel of the church in Smyrna, right?
One more time just to test you guys. Who are these angels that they keep talking about?
Messengers or, or pastors.
Okay. Yeah. I think they're the pastors of the churches. Again, the word angel literally means messenger. That's what it means. And then, uh, you have to go to the context to determine what kind of a messenger it is.
So
I
got
a question sort of,
alright,
so why was they written. Like, uh, the lamppost and why does that come up? Was it sort of to protect them when they copied letters and if they were accept?
That's a really good question. Why is it so symbolic?
Yeah.
Um, I don't know that I have a great answer that is a common answer that it would be, it was [00:04:00] cryptic because the early Christians would've understood it if they were saturated in the Old Testament.
Um, but obviously we're talking about some Rome, but we're also talking about Jewish persecution. So the Jews, if they would've been
Yeah,
well versed in, they, they would've got it.
Yeah.
So, um, again, I don't know that I have a really good answer why it was Okay, I guess, but I'm, I'm open if anyone else just heard something or has an idea or, um, because honestly, I don't think it would've protected them from the Jews.
No.
And I don't think the Romans would've much cared.
Yeah.
So I don't think it was written this way to be cry cryp cryptic on purpose.
Yeah.
Um, some would say it was written this way because it's apocalyptic language, but the more I've studied apocalyptic literature, I don't think this is apocalyptic. I think it has some similarities.
I would just, I would simply call this a prophecy saturated in Old Testament symbology. So, [00:05:00]
good phrase,
but good question. Um, so Jesus identifies himself as the first, the last who is dead, who has come to life. Um, I think that emphasizes his sovereignty, uh, but it also emphasizes and reminds us that he's savior.
Um, and then in, in verse nine, and it's a good question. So again, if you have more stop and ask is, some of these churches may go fast, others are gonna go a little bit slower. Um, I know your tribulation and your poverty. But you are rich. And I think sometimes, especially in this country, we sometimes think we're poor and we are filthy rich compared to the rest of the world.
But more importantly, he's obviously talking about spiritual riches. Um, we're not, if you know Christ Jesus, obviously you're rich beyond measure. Um, and the poor were important to Christ. So, um, [00:06:00] somebody, if you would please look up James chapter two, verse five and somebody else. Luke chapter six, verse 20.
James chapter two, verse five. Luke chapter six, verse 20.
And whoever gets there can start reading.
I have Luke.
Okay, Luke six 20.
You want me to go first? Okay. And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples and said. For yours is the kingdom of heaven.
Okay? So oftentimes it's spiritual poorness that's being talked about. But Luke's, it seems to emphasize when you compare Luke's account of the Beatitudes with Matthew's account of the beatitude, Luke I think tends to emphasize more the the physical.
He's not ignoring the spiritual, but Matthew seems to really emphasize the spiritual where Luke would bring in both. So [00:07:00] James two, five, sorry I
was written wrong page.
Listen, my beloved brethren has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which he promised to those who love him.
Okay, so you'll see that contrast and again, contextually in James, I think he's dealing with actually physically poor. Um, but I think, again, you cannot discount the spiritual aspect.
So I know your tribulations and your poverty and me reminds 'em, but you're actually really rich and the blasphemy by those who say they are Jews and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. How have you all understood that in the past? What are we talking about? Real Jews? Are we talking about something different here?
What, what is your understanding?[00:08:00]
Probably just, they were just secular Jews and they went through the motions, but didn't have any.
Okay.
Any need to it.
Okay. That's, that would be one take on it. Anybody different?
I, I'd take the same take and perhaps expand it to, um, Christianity in general. Church invisible. Church visible and invisible Church.
Say that again. The second part,
and I'd expand it to include Christianity in general, being followers of Christ, Jew, or Gentile being included as, um, visible or invisible church.
Okay. Okay. All right. Um, remember Smyrna had the largest Jewish population in Asia. In addition to that, if you go back and you read the book of Acts, um, the persecution that the Christians experienced up until the mid sixties when Niro came on the scene [00:09:00] was all the Jews.
Okay. And, and I'm not sure what you meant, so I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I wouldn't describe them as secular Jews. I think these are old covenant Jews who are hanging onto the old Covenant system, and they hate Christianity because they hate Christ. So they're persecuting the church because you've got Jew Jewish people entering the church as believers and they're no longer practicing, you know, the ceremonial system and stuff like that.
I mean, you go back to the book of Hebrews, uh, the recipients of the book of Hebrews were experienced persecution because, you know, they weren't practicing the old system. So I think these are real Jews, old covenant Jews. There was a synagogue in Smyrna and they were persecuting the church. So that is how I would interpret this.
Um, they were blaspheming, uh, and blasphemy, and I think we mentioned this the last time. Blasphemy can refer to, uh, it can be [00:10:00] directed against God, uh, but it can also be directed against men insulting, talking bad. Um, there's probably a combination of both here because if you're going after new covenant believers, you're obviously taking an attack.
You're obviously blasting Christ, you're so, um, I think it's probably both there, but I think it's really important to understand John's words because I think sometimes we miss this and we want to hang on to it, I think, and if somebody wants to try to counter it, that's fine. We're talking about ethnic Jews, old covenant believers, so I would call them believers, but old covenant.
Yeah.
Um, I think they got it twisted and wrong, but notice what he says. Um, I know you're poverty, but you're rich and the blasphemy people attacking you verbally, the blasphemy by those who say they are Jews but are not, but are a [00:11:00] synagogue of Satan. So I think what John is saying is the same thing that Paul is saying.
Not all Israel is Israel. Just because you're a physical, a physical Jew. It doesn't mean you're a spiritual Jew, in other words, um, again, I think it goes hand in hand with something's happened here and there's a new covenant. And even though the church can be called Israel, the church can be called the Israel of God.
That's the point. A true Jew. Today, a true seed of Abraham is someone who believes in Christ Jesus. A true Jew today is not necessarily one ethnically, it's one who has put their faith in Christ Jesus. And I think John is using the same language that Paul is using. Would somebody look up John chapter eight, verse 44, John chapter eight, verse 44.[00:12:00]
You are of, you are of your father, the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning. And he does not stand in the truth because it is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks lies, he speaks from the, from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Okay?
And if you go back and you look at the context again, he's talking to old covenant Jews. Um, but what, how, how does he describe them? You are of your father of the devil. Okay? You're, you brewed a vipers. It's just another way of saying the same thing, which is as close to a curse word as you could probably get back in that day.
Um, because you're identifying them as sons of Saint Sons of the circle. Sons of the dragon. So that's how I understand it. And I think that goes hand in hand with the book of Acts in the early persecution by the Jews. Um, verse 10. [00:13:00] Uh, do not fear, uh, what you were about to suffer. Behold the devil is about to cast some of you into prison so that you will be tested and you will have tribulation for 10 days.
Uh, be faithful until death and I will give you the crown of life. Um, how have you, in the past, how have you understood the 10 days? You'll have tribulation for 10 days. I'm just curious how you've understood that in the past.
This is one of my first times studying revolution.
Okay. It
sounds really embarrassing, just so I'm being really quiet.
Nothing wrong with that.
At first, I thought it was 10 physical days. Okay. And then being older and more mature, I, it was more periods like it went up and down between, it depended on who was the emperor at the time.
Okay. Okay. [00:14:00] And, and some folks would do that. Some folks would try to find a, uh, specific 10, 10 day period, uh, which, uh, I don't think there is one.
And, uh, all the different, all the different views. I don't think anyone has, has identified or even tried to say this was the 10 days. Um, uh, I, I know some people, uh, have looked at it as the 10 days or 10 years, and it happened under, uh, I forget the name of the emperor. It was, it is the one in Gladiator.
Does anyone remember, uh, the, the emperor that dies in Gladiator? It's Marcus. I think it was, there was some persecution under Marcus Aelius that lasted either 10 years or 10 days or whatever. I would argue, and again, I think we need to be careful here because sometimes numbers mean exactly. Sometimes 10 just means 10.
Sometimes three just means three. However, as I've said before, the number three, the number seven. The number 10 and sometimes the [00:15:00] number six does often come with other meaning attached to it, and 10 often refers to just a complete number where seven is refers to perfection. 10 often refers to just like a complete number.
So let me throw some more verses at you. Uh, somebody look up Genesis 24 55. Somebody look up Daniel one 12 and actually you're gonna read Daniel one 12 and then verses 14 and 15,
Genesis 24 55,
Genesis 24 55.
And her brother and mother said, let the damsel abide with us a few days, at least the 10. And after that she shall go.
Okay? And I believe that is Rebecca. If I remember it was for Isaac's wife and they didn't want her leave and they throw out this figure 10 days. It, maybe they literally meant 10 days, but because of [00:16:00] the way that number is used in the Old Testament, I think they just let her stay for a while.
I think it was a figure of speech. Let her stay for a while until she's ready to go. And interestingly enough, contextually, Rebecca says, I'm ready now. I'll go now. So she doesn't stay at all. Uh, who had Daniel one 12.
I got it.
Okay.
Is it just one 12 or,
uh, start with one 12, then I'm gonna say something.
Then you can go for 14 and 15.
Okay. Proof thy servant. So be each the 10 days and let them give us pulse to eat and water to drink.
Okay, so again, Daniel Meha sha directing the Bendigo, and we should know their Jewish names, but even I forget 'em, uh, they asked for a 10 day period. Now, I don't know if you've ever gone on a binge diet or something like that.
10 days isn't really going to be a good test. So it's likely they're not referring to a literal 10 days. Give us a fair period of time [00:17:00] that you can come back and see if we're losing weight or if we're staying healthy. Is the idea here. So now go ahead and read verses 14 and 15.
So they consented to 'em in this matter and prove them 10 days and at the end of 10 days, their countenance is appeared fair and better in flesh than all the children, which did eat the portion of the King's meat.
Okay. So, uh, again, I think these are illustrations and examples of 10 day is just a reference to a complete period of time. Uh, we we're not gonna read this one, but if you're taking notes you can jot it down. Jeremiah 42, verse seven is another example, and I just pulled some examples. There are plenty of other places that you can go in the Old Testament where this phraseology of 10 days is not referring to a specific period of time.
Um, let
say that again, Jeremiah, what?
Jeremiah 42 7.
Thank you.
Him. So when they say, um, Satan or the devil is about to cast you into prison, uh, so that you'll be tested and you will have [00:18:00] tribulation for 10 days. I don't think he's being specific on the length of time. And again, uh, nobody has really come up with something that fits historically.
In other words, we don't know what this tribulation the church in Smyrna experienced. We don't know what it is, what it was. Okay. Um, but here's the interesting thing. In a later letter, I forget which church, but when we get to it, I'll remember and point it out to you. Um, Jesus says, I will keep you from testing and I could look it up if you really want me to, but we'll, we'll get to it eventually.
But the church has promised that I will keep you from testing and again. I'm not trying to be derogatory, I'm just stating facts here. But Dispensationalist will interpret that as a pre-trib rapture, okay? I will keep you from [00:19:00] tribulation. So it's a 10 day, or it's a pre-trib rapture, but here he says you're going to experience tribulation.
But this is ignored. And again, I just pointed out, because I think the one thing that we need to do when we interpret scripture is we need to be as consistent as possible. And if keeping somebody from tribulation means pre-trib rapture, then why doesn't this mean mid or post trib rapture if we're being consistent in how we're trying to interpret things.
Um, just something to think about. Something that, that I'll point out. Um, for 10 days, be faithful. Until death, and I will give you the crown of life. Um, I forget I had
another, so is that Jesus speaking through Paul? I mean, John?
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah. Because this is Jesus' message to the seven churches, right? [00:20:00] So this is actually, John's doing the writing, but all of this is Jesus speaking right now,
okay?
He's, he's the letter writer. Um, oh, Psalm 1 0 3, 4. Does somebody wanna look that up? I knew I had in the divorce.
And again, he promises them. And this is why we're looking up Psalm 1 0 3, 4. Be faithful. Continue, faithful, continue believing you know, until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
Who redeems your life from destruction? Who crowns you with loving kindness and tender mercies?
So again, this idea of being crowned, or the crown of life runs throughout scripture.
Earth, and I'm not trying to bury you in scripture passages, so I'm just giving you a taste for it. But if I'm giving you a taste, you can find other passages. I think. I think there's a passage in James that talks about the crown of life. There's Paul talks about crowns later in the Book of Revelation.
They remove their crowns and they cast 'em at the feet of Jesus. So this idea, and I think this is [00:21:00] important, um, even as practical as you know, the parenting class we do on Fridays, God rewards us. And if God rewards us and we don't deserve rewards, and anytime we obey God, we're simply doing what we were designed to do.
And yet God rewards us, God motivates us. And so we need to get in the habit of, you know, rewarding our children, maybe rewarding the people that work for us. Um, rewards not bribes, but rewards have a purpose. And I just find it very gracious that God is very quick. Uh, to reward us. Um, verse 11. He who has an ear, let him hear what the spirit says to the churches.
Just another reminder, I pointed it out multiple times last week. Um, each of these seven letters are written to seven historical churches, individual churches. I believe they were meant to [00:22:00] be passed on. And the reason they were meant to be passed on is at the end of every letter, he says something like, he who has an ear, let him hear what the spirit says to the church's plural.
So he's writing to the church in Smyrna that everything he warns them about, he wants the other churches to read them as well and to be warned as well, um, he has an ear to let him hear what the spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death. What is the first and second death?
How do you all understand?
I wouldn't first death be our spiritual death via sin.
Okay.
And the second death be physical death.
Okay. Close. I think you're, you're in the ballpark there.
I would, I would push you a little more on second death. And I actually like what you said about the first death. 'cause a lot of people would say the first death would be our physical death. [00:23:00] Physical death.
Yeah.
Which I think our physical death is connected to the first death. We physically die because we're sinners.
Okay. We're dead spiritually.
Well then second death, would that be more of like those who don't believe are in hell?
Yes. I would say the second death is health. So what he says here, and then I'll somebody look up while, while I read this again, revelation chapter 20 verses 14 and 15, revelation 20 verses 14 and 15.
But I wanna read verse 11 again. He who has an ear, let him hear what the spirit says to the church's plural. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death. And a couple of things to point out, out as we're looking up that verse, we are saved by faith alone. But as I've said multiple times, faith never comes alone.
If you have true saving faith, you will persevere. That's part of the package. And that's why Jesus can say here, he who overcomes will not [00:24:00] experience the second death because anyone with true saving faith overcomes that's what faith produces in us because Jesus is a good and a complete savior. So if we have true saving faith, we're gonna have works.
Our life's gonna look different, we're gonna persevere and we will overcome. Uh, who had, uh, who found Revelation 20 verses 14 and 15
and death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Okay. And whosoever was not found written in the Book of life, was cast into the lake of fire.
Alright, read verse 14 again. What, what version are you reading?
King
James. Okay. Read verse 14. That's interesting. Read verse 14 again.
And Death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death,
huh? Interesting. Uh, new American standard reads, and I could look up the Greek if you want, but, uh, verse 14 says, then death in Hades were thrown into the lake of fire.
This is the second death, the lake of fire. So this translation [00:25:00] identifies the second death as the lake of fire. Um, if anyone's name is not found written in the Book of Life, we'll come back and talk about the Book of Life in another few churches. If anyone's name is not found written in the book of life, he's thrown into the lake of fire.
Okay. So the second death is that ultimate spiritual separation from God. It's ultimately held. The first death, as I said before, and you can go back to John's gospel and read about this a little bit as well. But the first death, it's interesting, the first death, we're born dead, and because we're born dead, we die physically.
And I would say those two kind of wrapped up in a ball, that's the first death, okay? Um, it's the second death. That's eternal judgment. If we don't turn to Christ and come to life in this life, then we experience the second death. [00:26:00] Questions, thoughts, comments before we move on to Pero?
All right. Somebody didn't read the first time, uh, chapter two verses 12 to 17, if somebody would read chapter two verses 12 to 17,
and to the angel of the church in Pero, right? These things say s. He, which has the sharp sword with two edges. I know that works. And where the aist, even where Satan's seat is and that'll hold us fast.
My name and has not denied my faith even in those days wherein Ancos was my faithful martyr who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth. But I have a few things against the, because thou has, there are them that hold the doctrine of Balon who taught Blac to cast a stumbling block before the children of Israel.
That things sacrificed into idols and to commit fornication, so has thou also them that hold [00:27:00] the doctrine of nicolet. Which thing I hate, repent, or else I will come unto me quickly and will fight against them with the sword in my mouth. He that has an ear. Let him hear, let the spirit so unto the churches to that overcome it.
Will I give to eat of the hidden manna and we'll give him a white stone. And then the stone, a new name written, which no man, Noah saving. He that receive us did.
Okay, good. Alright. Little background on Pergamum. Um, second largest, uh, oh, this is for me, but I like this. Uh, Pergamum had the second largest library in Asia.
Minor. I forget. Oh two. Oh, I put two these, I think it's, I'm pretty sure it's not 2 million. I think I added a zero. It should, should be 200,000 volumes, which in the ancient world, that was huge. Anyone know the only [00:28:00] library that had more
Alexandria?
Alexandria, uh, the library and Alexandria. And what hap anyone know what happened to the library in Alexandria?
It all burnt down The precious gems we lost. Okay. But. Perma had the second largest library, 200, uh, thousand volumes. It was the capitol, the pro provincial capitol. It was sit situated on what was called the, uh, conical hill, which was kind of a famous hill back there. Um, uh, it had many, many temples, Roman temples, and it was one of the cities and most of them did this, but it was a big deal here that practiced emperor worship.
Practiced what? Emperor. Emperor Worship. All right. So this was a big deal in the Roman Empire. There was a, Rome had a big standing in Pergamum, and it's interesting that Jesus describes [00:29:00] himself in verse 12, uh, and to the angel of the church in Pergamon, right? The one who has the sharp two-edged sword says this.
Now, we know that terminology comes from the Old Testament as well, but it's interesting when he is addressing a very gentile Roman. And Rome uses the sword that Jesus describes himself as using and wielding a so sword. Only the sword that Jesus yields is what
The spirit sword of the spirit,
which is yes.
So what is the sword of the Spirit?
The word of God.
The Word. So Jesus is going to slay with his word. Um, and Jesus slays in one of two ways. He's either gonna slay you by conversion, he's gonna take you out of paganism, or he's gonna slay you by the second death. But it's done by his word over Againsts Rome who's gonna slay with a physical sword.
You might experience persecution, you might experience the physical sword, [00:30:00] but how many years did it take Christianity to defeat Rome? About 250. Okay. Um, and Rome to, I think. It, it was the largest and largest lasting empire in the history of mankind. I mean, think about how long Rome lasted, and I don't know the years off the top of my, my head, but compared, we're only America's 200 years old and Rome, I mean, you get an ancient map out.
You look at the Roman Empire, they, they were huge and they lasted for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years. And yet the sword of the spirit, the sword of Christ, Jesus took 'em out in a mere 200, 250 years, which is a pretty big deal when you look at church history. Um, verse three, I know where you dwell, where Satan's throne is again, I think that what the author is doing here is he's referring to the [00:31:00] multiple temples that were in the city of Pergamum.
Okay. And something I've said in the past, I'm not gonna take time to prove it, but maybe you remember it, maybe you don't. But I also think. Uh, and again, I've argued in the past that Satan, when the Bible talks about Satan being the ruler of this world, I think when you take all of those verses throughout the, uh, new Testament and you put 'em together, I think that what the authors are saying is Satan ruled wrong.
Just like when we look in the book of Daniel and we say that and, and we see that there was an angelic demonic ruler of the various empires. There was a demonic ruler of Babylon. There was a demonic ruler of the Persians. There was a demonic ruler of the Greeks. And Michael and Gabriel seem to be engaged in battle with these guys.
And it seems that Michael is ruling Israel in some sense. I mean, Yahweh ultimately, but we see these angels. [00:32:00] Um, and I've argued in the past that oftentimes some of the false gods that these pagan nations worship, uh, there were some substance to 'em. Not because they were actually Gods. Paul makes that very clear.
We know there's only one God, but they were demonic beings. And demonic beings have the ability to work powers and signs and things like that. So I think a lot of the, uh, false gods in the Old Testament were actually demonic beings, and these people were worshiping demonic beings. So there was some kind of substance, and Yahweh was using Israel to defeat these beings.
And now it's the church's job to do that. So I find it very interesting in this very Roman city. I know where you Dr. Where you dwell, where Satan's throne is. And this was a very big Roman city run by Roman temples and emperor worship and all that. And this is where Satan [00:33:00] dwells. Again, for me, it just fits.
Uh, I know you do where Satan's throne is and you hold fast my name. So these guys are living, this would be like, what would be a good city? Vegas. It'd be like writing to a church in Vegas. You know, I know where you dwell, where all this smut is, and yet you hold fast in my name. So that might be a way to, to make sense out of it.
And did not deny my faith. Even in the days of anus. My witness, literally the Greek there is my martyr. Um, but remember, uh, to be a martyr, first and foremost means to be a witness. So we're all supposed to be martyrs, and then we've, we've taken that word and we've, we've applied it to those who have died for their faith.
But typically when you die for your faith, it's because you die as a witness. So that's why the word martyr has come to mean that, but it literally means just to, to testify. Okay. Um, my faith one who has killed among you where Satan D. Alright. [00:34:00] Nobody knows. I, I haven't come across a single commentary or a single view that claims to know who anus was.
We, we just, just lost a history. However, isn't it fascinating how many, if you think about it, how many names do you find in scripture? I mean, maybe a hundred or whatever, I don't know. But I mean, specific believers, anus is mentioned and you just, it makes you wonder, and it should make you wonder, a little historical imagination or something.
Just, who was this man? Who was this man that was so faithful that Jesus would actually mention him in a very positive way in a letter, in a book of scripture? And he was his witness. He was his martyr. Um, he, I think all these other descriptions would apply to him. He held fast to his faith. He did not, he didn't deny [00:35:00] it.
Um, and he was killed for it where Satan dwells. Um, the other thing that, that I would say, um, and I've kind of laid this out in terms of the view that I hold too, even though I'll try to point out other views as we go, but I, I do think the book of Revelation has to do with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 80.
That's the view that I take. But you also see that throughout the book of Revelation, Rome is set up to fall as well, and Rome is a major component. And the reason that Rome, I believe is a major component is as the closer they got to 70 ad until they really made Rome angry. The Jews in Rome were working in unison to persecute the church.
I mean, think about what Jesus was accused of to be crucified. What was he accused of before the San He.
Blasphemy,
blasphemy. What was he accused of before? Pil? [00:36:00]
Treason.
He's a king. He claims to be a king. The Jews, because they're the people of, go ahead.
I was gonna say the Jews accused him of treason, but
Yes.
But the charge before the Sanhedrin was clearly blasphemy.
Right.
And then the Jews brought the charge of treason, right? Because that's what Rome wouldn't like,
right?
So my point is the Jewish nation, because they were the covenant people of God up until they crucified Jesus, they were still under the protection of Yahweh.
And they had clout and they used Rome, they wrote on the back of Rome. And I think when we get to chapter 17, 18, and 19, we're gonna see that picture where the Jews are using Rome. We're gonna get to a description of the seven hills and this lady flying around and all this stuff. Um. So the Jews were in concert with Rome in persecuting the church, [00:37:00] and Jesus took care of the Jews in 70 AD, took care of that old covenant system, and he allowed his church to take care of Rome in the next couple hundred years.
So Rome does play a prominent part in this book as we continue to read. Um, verse 14, unless you got questions or something,
why do you say Rome was two 50? So that would put it at two 50 ad but Rome went on from there because if I recall correctly, they didn't Rome and Em Empire didn't pull out of, uh, the British Isles in 360, something like that. So they were still going, but they were shrinking.
Right? But what did they become?
The Holy Roman. In other words, from at the time of Constantine is, which is if, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Constantine was right around 3 25 ish when [00:38:00] he had his conversion. Um, but right around that time, Christianity became a, uh, not only a free religion, but a protected religion and the religion of the Roman Empire.
So yes, I'm not saying that Rome went away in that amount of time, but they converted Christianity, conquered Rome, and they became the Holy Roman Empire.
Are you looking up the date? Yeah. Okay. Call her when you have it. I'm gonna go ahead and
Roman Emperor from 3 0 6 to 3 37.
Yeah, so the Council of N is usually dated around 3 25, and there's a lot of misunderstanding and false falsehoods that come, that are talked about in terms of the Council of n. Um, I will say this, and this happened with many councils.
Um, Constantine called for the council. He basically [00:39:00] set it up. He paid for it. He actually paid for some giant bibles that, that came out out of Nyia. Um, but he called for the council. He asked that the, uh, bishops, uh, around the Roman Empire to gather, to deal with some of this stuff. But that was it. He was not involved in the council.
We have, there is no evidence whatsoever that he made any decisions that he approved of this or that, or he held sway or had influence. He simply called the council. He wanted the church to come together and work out because again, he came to faith and he saw that there was some disunity in the church.
There was areas, there was the, the big Trinity discussion and stuff. And so he called for it, but he did not participate. He made no rulings. He made no suggestions, nothing. But that was the birth of the Holy Rome empire. So there was a change in Rome, verse 14. But I have a few things against you [00:40:00] because you have there some who hold to the teaching of bam.
Who remembers the story of em? Can somebody share the story of em? It it, uh, you can read about it in numbers 22, uh, through like 25. Uh, but who, who, anybody remember the story?
I remember his donkey talked back to him. His donkey
talked back to him. We have a ta, a talking donkey. Yes.
He was, he was sent to by Blac to curse the Jews.
Mm-hmm.
And uh, he got there and God would not allow him to curse, but only to bless the Jews. And Blac got upset about that.
Okay.
And he said, I can't do anything but what God has given me and.
Anymore.
No. I mean, okay. There's one other detail that, uh, is, uh, easy to forget and I'm trying to think, I dunno, that I wrote, uh, yeah, in [00:41:00] numbers 31, 16, I'll read that to you. So the story of Balum is typically found in numbers 22 through 25. And I think you did a good job of explaining it. The interesting thing was, and this is, you know, again, one of those interesting things in the Old Testament, he was a real prophet.
He wasn't necessarily a prophet of God though, but God did use him. And you're right, he could only say good things about Israel. He could not curse them. He could only bless them. And BAK didn't like it. However, we read later, and, and this is just kind of the summary in numbers 31 16, behold these referring to the Midianites caused the Sons of Israel through the Council of Baah.
So he couldn't prophesy against them, but he did counsel other people. Um. No. And he caused Israel to trespass against the Lord in the matter of peor. So the plague. So the plague was among the congregation of the Lord. And basically what happened at Peor was pretty much [00:42:00] similar to what happened when they made the golden calf.
There was basically a lot of sin, and I wanna be careful what words I use. Um, actually I can use the words of the text sacrificing the, uh, idols and acts of immorality. That's what happened at Payor. And I forget the number. I didn't do all the background, but there was a plague sent by God, and many Israelites died because of the sin there, and Balam was behind it.
So even though he couldn't prophesy against them, he still caused them to sin, and he still caused many to perish. And so John is using that. And some hold to the teaching of Vallum, uh, who kept B Black, uh, who kept teaching BAK to put a stumbling block before the Sons of Israel. And then this seems to be what is meant here in the New Testament by the teaching of Vallum to eat things sacrificed by I [00:43:00] to idols.
So obviously they were, it would seem that they were involved in these rituals because Paul has a whole lot to say about things. It's not necessarily a sin to eat things, sacrifice to idols. Paul makes that very clear because there are no gods but want. Alright? However, if eating something sacrificed to idol is gonna make your brother stumble, don't do it.
That's the only reason Paul gives for not eating food sacrifice to idol. Or if it bothers your conscience. If it bothers your conscience, don't eat it. If you know it's gonna bother the conscience of a weaker brother, don't eat it. But if none of that's gonna take place. And you bought it from the market and you knew it was sacrificed to an idol, but you weren't involved in it.
Your heart's content clearly here something else is going on. And it would seem that it's because they were involved in the ritual of things being sacrificed, the idols. So they were worshiping [00:44:00] idols and then they were participating in these meals. And just like in the Old Testament, when you would take a sacrifice to the temple and offer it many of the different sacrifices, you would also eat a portion of that sacrifice.
Alright, these things were happening in the pagan temples as well. So obviously, uh, some in the church were participating in this. All right. But the thing that I wanna point out and just talk about ever so briefly is, and to commit acts of immorality and the Greek word for immorality. And we've talked about this before, and even by saying the word, it should make sense what we're talking about here.
Porn. Okay. So this was of an intimate nature. And I guess what I want to bring up, and I don't know if you've noticed it or if you're aware of it or what, but this is a huge sin in the modern church. I mean, how many pastors in the last year have you heard that have had these [00:45:00] long-term affairs? And it comes to light, but worse than that, in my opinion, maybe it's not, I don't know.
'cause it's pretty bad when a pastor does that. But our young people just don't even view this sin as a sin anymore. I mean, it's just common practice. And I kind of wanted to bring this up and again, I wanna be careful, uh, with the audience. But what are we doing wrong? What, what are we not doing? Why would our young people just think that this is no big deal?
What are we doing wrong? Uh, and when I say we, I'm, I'm obviously talking about the church in general, and maybe a better question would be because most of you are parents and you're raising kids, and what can we do better?
Um, we spent, we spent about, let's see if I can remember, four or five. We [00:46:00] spent almost 10 years in the mountains of Colorado. Um, no electricity, no running water. Um, chopped our wood and raised chickens and did what we had to do. Little, a
house on the prayer.
Well, sort of, we were stuck out there sometimes in the winter time.
But, um, she didn't have a lot of contact with outside things. Even then. You didn't have a lot of. Texting or things like that. But we couldn't watch movies unless we turned down a generator and purposefully went that route. And sometimes they were, uh, spiritual videos that friends would tape and send to us, or, um, things, but she wasn't, she didn't sit in front of a TV set.
She didn't [00:47:00] spend a lot of time, um, not that, that you wanna isolate your kids, but there was a lot of time socializing with a lot of young people without, you know, things without supervision. And I would say that that is some of it, A lot of the world comes in through television, through the phones now, and, um, you with other people and you don't know.
How they're, she's with other people and you don't know how they were brought up. Um, and that did happen. It's not like she was totally isolated. We went to town once a week and she got to spend the day with friends while I did my thing that I had to do. And she'd spend nights and they have birthday parties, and she was shocked by some of the stuff she saw.
But, um, [00:48:00] I, I think it, it's not a, I, I don't know, I don't, people said that we isolated her too much, but there were other people who said, no, she's who accused me of that until they spent time with her and said, she is so sweet behind. Um, so I don't know if that would be a remedy, but it could Sure help.
Yeah. Well, I, I, I agree with a lot of what you said. Maybe all of it, I don't know. Um, media in general, you know, how we view media, what we do, we oftentimes, and this is where it gets tricky, because we do live in a world where almost everyone has a cell phone. And when you tell your child you can't have a cell phone, which in my opinion is a very smart thing to do.
Yeah. Because, you know, I don't want you to look at this stuff, but here's a machine that you can find everything you want [00:49:00] on it really easy. Okay. Um, but we have to do that in, in a way that makes sense to the child when everybody else has these things. We need to be careful what we watch on tv, what we allow into our houses, you know, things like that.
Um, I remember I used to joke about this, but when Jesse was born, I remember that. First thought on my mind was I was gonna go home and start constructing the bubble. 'cause I was gonna protect my, my daughter
thought, you're gonna get a big shotgun.
Well, I got that. Um, but I mean, we can't do that. We can't live in a bubble.
We have to live in the world and, and we have to, you know, teach our kids. Um, something else that I've, I think we've learned a little by experience, but also by talking to other young people is how we talk about intimate things or [00:50:00] the fact that we don't talk about it oftentimes. Uh, there's a book that Barna put out, and it's called un-Christian, and there's a chapter that talks about this in the book.
But oftentimes we talk about these types of things as if they're dirty and ugly and they're not, and we've got to, or we simply ignore it as if it were dirty or ugly. Here's my point. And maybe in a different Bible study we can get into more depth or something, but this was a problem in the early church.
This was a problem throughout almost every page of scripture. You look at all the godly men in the Old Testament and what sin tripped them up. This one?
Mm-hmm.
Okay. The few exceptions. In fact, there's only, I may have asked this before, but I just find this fascinating, but can anyone think of a, an old, there's a couple, but can anyone think of an Old Testament [00:51:00] saint where there sin just isn't talked about?
You know, there's sinner. 'cause we're all sinners, but their sin just isn't talked about, period. Enoch Very true. It's
an easy way.
That's a good one. Yes. Yes. That's one.
Daniel,
Daniel,
Daniel.
No, I, that's, I, it's just fascinat. That you just don't read about. You know, he's a sinner. Um, because all men of sin and fall short of the glory of God.
He's got a beautiful prayer of confession, uh, in the midst of Daniel. Yet most commentators, and I think they're right, would say he probably wasn't responsible for most of the sins he confessed, but he prayed a corporate prayer of confessional, but you just don't read that, um, about Daniel. Again, that's just bible tribute.
It's just, but all this is just a giant problem in the church and we've got human
problem.
It [00:52:00] is a human problem. Um, but as a church, we just have to think it through, I think, and I think it's probably something we need to talk about more. And I think media and social media and all these things, and I just don't think we're doing a great job.
So I just throw that out to think about.
I think sin hides in the shadows. So if you can expose it, it's less likely to be the one.
Yeah.
I think it is. Well, to me has normalized it
and I think, oh, that was what I was, I'm glad you said that. 'cause I was gonna say that and then forgot. Well, and, and you and then, oh, I'm, no, I'm sorry.
Um, and then the last, you know, from 20 to 24, you know, they tried to normalize another
mm-hmm.
Large sin. Mm-hmm. And that's when they finally got some kickback pushback, even from non-Christians. I mean, this is parents, this is [00:53:00] just, you know, too weird. This is too much. And even
so I might wanna add to that.
I, I know, and I know I could be the same way, but. When we let our guard down, we just get used to doing what we do and not paying attention to our children and where they're at. And a lot of times they'll say a lot of the kids who are the, you know, school, the people who went in and, um, trying to be careful, but you know, messed around in at the schools and caused mayhem, the parents didn't know what they were doing and how could that be when they're living in the same house?
Mm-hmm. [00:54:00] So it's a matter of the parents going, a lot of times going to work, having jobs, kids are latchkey kids or doing whatever, and you don't know what your kids are doing because you're so involved in your life. And not paying a lot of attention to where they're at.
Yeah. I think that's a component as well.
I think within the church specifically though, it's kind of what you're addressing. I think part of it has been a shift because of bad teaching and bad doctrine, maybe to some part bad eschatology that the, the shift has been from the primary source for that teaching, being the home and family, to now we're shifting that responsibility to the church, which was never the design.
Yeah. Um, it's not the church's [00:55:00] responsibility to, to disciple your kids. That's your responsibility. So,
yeah, because you, you, you have certain uncomfortable topics and the public school offers the ed class. And the parents now abdicate that authority in that very critical discussion with their kids, where you could kind of broach some of these subjects and you're just saying, oh, it's, uh, it's, I never went to public school, but I think it's a document.
Parents sign like, this is gonna be talked about next week. And okay, sure. Now I don't have to deal with it.
Well, I'm just thinking about where we are right now. You know, you, you're in a, you know, you can't bach every subject in a corporate setting, especially on a Sunday morning. So if that's what the expectation is though, oh, we're gonna send our kids to church, or we're gonna go to church and they're gonna learn everything they need to know there and we have no responsibility at home.
Absolutely. I think these, uh, home conversations are really important. I mean, even if you are able to watch your children all the [00:56:00] time, which it's almost impossible to do it all the time. Like my parents would send me to the library as an example and be, the library is a safe place at the time we thought, but the young adult section was full of books.
Geared towards teaching you about these things. They were worldly books and they were just as dangerous as media at that time. Mm-hmm. And maybe they're getting worse. I don't know.
They are.
I think they're getting worse because I heard an author of a teen novel. They were, the book had been banned from public school libraries, and she was having a fit because her book was banned.
And her statement was, and I quote, it, only had mild pornography in it for teenagers. I'm like, you got me at the pornography. I don't care. You know, don't care what type of pornography. It's don't what was mild conversations
come in. Well, they rationalize it, what's right and what's wrong before they even get their hands on stuff like
this.
Yeah. Yeah.
The word media has been used in this discussion a couple times. And I, I think you, [00:57:00] sorry, he's being distracting. I think you mentioned, um, just real quick social media. I, I see that as a, um, as a gateway drug for this. Is social media and it, it boils down to a lack of discernment. 'cause social media in and of itself isn't bad, but you can, same with news, but you watch CNN and you don't have discernment, and now, now you're in trouble.
You know? And that's, that's a problem because the phone in and of itself, or the computer or whatever people are using is not the sinful thing. It's the lack of discernment and the direction. Yes.
I don't know if you remember this, but um, Mike was leading a bible study with 17 to 20 year olds when we were back in Phoenix.
And one evening we were talking about marriage and boundaries in [00:58:00] marriage. And you could have knocked me over with a feather. He posed the question to the kids who had grown up homeschooled. Together. Our families all attended the same church. We were all very much in line, philosophically, spiritually.
And he posed a question to one of the boys and girls who were good friends and he said to the girl, now in a couple years, if you're married and you see this guy here and you guys, um, want to visit and have a cup of coffee, would you say that's a boundary you don't pass? And they said, yeah, if I wanted to go have a cup of coffee with so and so, even after I'm married, my husband should know that that's not a big deal.
And we're like, okay, wait, what? We gotta back up. And I realized there were some really big [00:59:00] polls in conversations that had never been had. We assumed our kids would. Absolutely know that that would be really inappropriate. I remember growing up, hearing the story of Billy Graham not even stepping into an elevator with another, with a woman.
He would stay back and she would go. And that made such an impact on me and my thinking. But it wasn't something that got translated, I guess, in great detail
to these kids. But it, it's, it's going up against the culture at large, what we, and how we teach our kids. 'cause how many movies and TV shows present that very scenario and maybe even going further.
Yeah,
it might not, nothing might not happen, but it's, um, the patriarchy, it's bigotry or whatever slur you want to use at the man for being upset about that [01:00:00] scenario. You, uh, the world is just insecure. That's the word I'm coming in with. And it's not no. That's wrong. Yeah.
Yeah. Alright. Well I wanted to have that discussion because I mean, we see it in the early church, we see it in the Old Testament and we see it today.
And I just think it's something that we don't talk about enough and we, we need to think that we need to think this one through and think about it because it is a human problem. Um, but should it really be a church problem? And I know there are sinners in the church, but, um, but what really bothers me is not even that it's a, a church problem that people fall into this, but the lackluster view of our young people when it comes to this.
'cause like I said, they don't even see it as wrong. It's just, it's just what you do. And so anyway, um, we'll close there. I think we can, uh, [01:01:00] wrap up this church and the next one next time around. Um, but any last minute questions or anything before we. And Matt, will you pray? Sure.
Christ, God. And Father, thank you for this time. Together we can study your word, uh, as a family and as a body of believers. Gotta be asked now that you would bless, uh, this conversation. I pray that, uh, as the week moves forward, that you would help us to reflect on it and that your spirit would use it to convict us and to reform us and change us.
And gotta be asked that we as we go for here tonight, that you give us safety and bless us throughout the rest of this week. In Jesus name, pray. Amen.
Amen.
